Chris

Hi folks, our guest for this episode is a basketballer. He’s also a soon-to-be college student athlete, just days away from farewelling his parents and his many younger brothers before heading to upstate New York, and this sets the scene for what I think is going to be a pretty cool chat that will inspire many, not least of all me, because I, for one, have already been super impressed by the attitude of this young man over the last 18 months progressing through the Study and Play USA program. So let’s get right to it. Kuol Jongroor, welcome to In the Huddle.

Kuol
Chris, thank you for having me. It’s my pleasure to be on. 

Chris
Yeah, awesome mate. I’ve been really looking forward to it all week once you accepted my invitation to come on, so I’ve made plenty of topics that I really want to talk to, and I’d like to probably do this for two hours, but we’ll keep it shorter than that. But I think a good place to start is just checking in on how you’re feeling about heading off. I think you’re only a couple of days out from leaving now. What are the emotions as you prepare to take off to the US?

Kuol
Absolutely estatic. I don’t think it’s actually fully hit me yet because I’ve actually haven’t left Australia since I came here when I was young. It’s like a very daunting task, but absolutely ecstatic, just to experience the American lifestyle and really get into the culture.

Chris
That’s awesome, mate. Yeah, so it is a weird emotion, isn’t it? It’s excitement, it’s nerves, it’s probably a touch of sadness too for temporarily leaving your family for a while. So we’ll touch on your family in a moment, because I think that’s really a key pillar to your, I guess, your nature and who you are and what motivates you. So I really want to dig down a little bit on your family. So I mentioned the word Inspire, or Inspiration, in the intro and your extraordinarily large family as well. I remember really well, mate, when we first met and your parents were on a Zoom call with you and you were sitting on the couch and at the height of COVID, everything was Zoom, and every few minutes you had a little brother that would pop up or put his head into the screen, and it was just is this another brother? Is this another brother? It was just wow, and I lost count by the end, mate. But I guess, as you do prepare to take off, yeah, can you shed a bit of light on what role your family plays in your life?

Kuol
Well, my family is basically is my life when it comes to the heart of it, like growing up, especially having a lot of siblings, was was really beneficial to me because it really formed what type of person I am now. I really, I really like the way we always always came together and connected as a family. Obviously, we have a little fight here and there all boys in there so we have a little tussles here and there, but that’s just that’s how we bonded. So my family, to me, is so important. You know, it’s like my rock, my foundation. That’s basically what keeps me going in life, just to make sure that they’re taken care of, they’re happy. Making my parents proud that’s basically what drives me at the end of the day.

Chris
Yeah, that’s very special, mate. It’s and there’s eight boys, right, you’re the eldest of eight, so I think holding that position as the eldest is different. I’m the youngest of four boys, funnily enough. So I know what it’s like to be on the other end and having an older brother or three of them to look up to. So I was always intrigued what it feels like to be the oldest, and it sounds like it’s a role that you take very seriously, mate. I’ll dig a little bit deeper into that as we go as well. But, mate, you did mention just before you hadn’t been sort of back on a plane overseas since you arrived in Australia. But yeah, it taught me through your family background and how that all came about mate.

Kuol
Yeah, so my family migrated here in 2007. During that time in my home country of South Sudan there was the civil wars going on and my family, my dad, decided to move us out of there and we lived in Kenya when I was very small, it made my younger brother Jongroor, we have the first name and the last name is the same. Yeah, we came to Australia in 2007 when I was four years old and he was two years old. My dad came first to basically look at Australia to see if it’s a suitable place to raise a family. It was either between Australia or Canada and I’m very grateful he made the decision to come to Australia or else I’d be Canadian right now. But definitely during that time growing up, it was a bit of a culture shock because I wasn’t so used to the western culture and country, but I really grew into it. I went to kindergarten here, primary school, high school, you know, went throughout the lot and during that time, being the eldest, I’ve been given so much responsibility because my parents would both work, my mom and dad would both work to make us a lifestyle that we can get used to and during that time the responsibilities of looking after and being responsible not just for myself but for my siblings as well. And another sibling would be added to the family and that would just be more responsibility for me. But I never looked at it as a responsibility. I looked at it as a gift to nurture and to look after these guys, so one day they’ll take care of me and my family as well. It’s like a return. You look after your brothers, they look after you. That’s that connection. And during that time when we were growing up, especially in Victoria, there wasn’t many Sudanese kids but the Australian people were very welcoming.I never had any issues growing up with anything racial. Everyone was very kind, very nice, very welcoming. I noticed that it was a very Australian thing to do, to be welcoming and to be mates with someone. It doesn’t matter your background, and then a day, if you’re a decent person, australians would always look out for you. So growing up was very fairly easy.But I did have my struggles here and there when it came to deciding what direction I wanted to go to. Like when I was in high school I was not sure if I wanted to continue my basketball route or to make my dad happy and continue doing biology and legal studies, all these hard subjects. But it hit me when I was in year 10 that I truly wanted to pursue basketball as a dream and career. My dad gave me the opportunity. He told me. He told me, Kuol, if you put your heart into what you want to do, I will support you, and that’s all I needed to hear. When I decided to go to CEDA in Year 12 and just to focus on basketball because it was more of a V-Cal oriented instead of a VCE it was a good opportunity because I could just focus on basketball and not to worry about studies and that’s what really elevated me to get my game in a really good position. But after I graduated I was thinking should I focus more to try to support my family or should I go and chase my dream and then support my family in the outcome? And I decided. When I found Study and Play USA with you guys, it was like a gift. It was the opportunity that came to me. I took it and I don’t get anything at all. It was an amazing situation to be in, to get with you guys to help me and get situated with college coaches, and I’m super excited to be in the position I am.

Chris
That’s really well said, mate, and really appreciate you sharing your background, I guess, and I guess, your family culture, and I’m really pleased to hear, also as a fellow Aussie, that you were welcomed and you’ve experienced only really good things, and I think that’s what we do hear about the other side of things, which of course exists, which is sad to hear, but I’m really pleased for you, mate, that you and your family have been very well received here. Mate, it’s that’s great to hear and I guess using your listening to that advice that your dad gave you and how, as you said, that’s all you needed to hear. I think that’s a really good thing. And using use the word gift a couple of times, which means you’re a really grateful young man. So I think certainly mum and dad can be very proud of you, mate, and you know listeners here can learn a lot from that, I think, as well. So, look, I want to set up another topic here, mate, by sharing with our listeners just a quick story, I think, just to put people in the loop. It’s a requirement sometimes in the application process to submit an essay. Sometimes these essays are short responses to some specific questions. Other times it’s simply an autobiographical essay which gives a student athlete like yourself a chance to share your story, your background, your motivation and why, why are you choosing this particular path and this particular university. So, as you can imagine, we read a lot and reviewed a lot of essays in our 20 years of operation, but while yours was a cut above the rest, to be honest and I’m not saying that because you’re here that is actually why I bought you on here, because I think I want to share, if you’re happy for me to, some of these snippets of your essay, because I think it’s like little nuggets of gold for even myself, who’s well and truly beyond this pathway now, but I think for the youngsters listening and families, I think it’s some really some real authentic stuff out of that essay which I think is almost a shame not to share it. So if you’re happy for me to, if I can pull out a few snippets and share and talk about each of those topics, you’re happy for me to do that.

Kuol
Yeah, definitely Sure, yeah, go ahead.

Chris
Okay, so look, here’s the first, I guess significant snippet that I’ve got written down here, that I’ve taken from the essay, and this is quoting you: I wish to study and play basketball in the United States for various reasons, with education being among the top priorities, not just to me but to my parents, who instilled hard work and dedication in the things I’m passionate about basketball and human beings. 

Chris
So tell me about that, mate. Where does your, firstly, where does your passion for basketball come from?

Kuol
My passion for basketball comes from when I was young and in in primary school I wasn’t sure what direction to really go in life. I wasn’t really into into school that much. I wasn’t really into many things, didn’t have many hobbies. Sports was like a leisure for me, like a pathway to to really put my energy towards something positive. I tried many sports, I tried footy, I tried soccer, but basketball really just spoke to me. It did something to me when I played it. Obviously I was having fun, but it was something inside, like I was called to to play basketball, like I’ve been gifted, you know, with with some good height and some good genes. It would be a shame for me to not play basketball, because I feel like it’s just something that I feel really passionate about, even even though I couldn’t play basketball. I’d even be coaching. I just loved the game so much because it means so much to me, as it’s always been there. It would have if I was having a bad day, I was having a good day, something was going wrong in my life.I would always have basketball to be there to, to get a sweat out to, to get a workout in, and it would never.It would never betray me, it would never disappoint me, it would always be there. All you needed was a court and a basketball and you can have fun for hours and hours.You can do it by yourself, but with people it’s much, it’s much better. The social thing, it just, It’s like a euphoric feeling once you, when you’re playing, it just feels amazing.

Chris
Yeah, that’s awesome, mate. Again, you know, I get I always sort of think, wow, did I ever have that passion for my sport? I mean, did I ever see my sport as that? I don’t think I could say yes to that. So I think that’s so, so good for you that you’re able to experience that and or that’s what basketball does for you. So, and the fact that you’re going to go do that for another four years, that that excites me for you, right? So that’s, that’s, that’s really interesting, mate. And what about, if we’re talking passion, what? What you’ve also mentioned in that little quote, your passion for human beings. Where does this come from? 

Kuol
My passion for human beings comes from, it starts at home, with, with my family, and because I see someone, my dad. My mom and dad are my heroes. Like I see, I see such such good in them because they’re the most selfless people that I know. They never complained, they were never, never showed us ungratefulness. They always appreciated us, they always gave us so much and never, ever asked for anything in return. And I and I went out and thought to myself how can, how can you know everyday people be be so selfless and not expect something in return? So I went to go see if other people can be like that and if it’s just an individual thing, or if people in general are all naturally good and people just change in their own ways due to certain circumstances. So it really, it really captivated me when, when I see my parents, they do so much, I say, but I also, I also myself why would they do so much for for other people? I didn’t understand it because I always thought the world, you know, would be like a harsh place and everyone is cares for themselves only. But it’s not always like that. You get people, not just your family, but you get mates that would, would also do things for you. But just understanding why people do things not just, you know, out of compassion, but why they do things or it could be negatively or why people think about doing certain things and just basically understanding what what people do and why they do them is was very interesting to me and I just wanted to meet and talk to different people, get their points of views on certain topics and life in general. Always soaking up advice is something I I’d always say to younger kids to just be be very humble in your, in your perceived knowledge, listen more and talk less. To learn more, because at the start we all know nothing. Everyone thinks they know something, but we know nothing. You always want to be learning something. Keep asking, keep asking. I used to think it was a bad thing, it was embarrassing to ask, but if you didn’t know? But asking questions is the best thing you can do because it shows that you want to learn, you want to improve, you want to gain more knowledge, especially in human beings. That’s something that’s really good to learn from other people, to better your education in whatever field you’re in. Just keep asking questions. That’s what I was interested in.

Chris
Yeah, mate, I love it. This is so good because I can imagine we get told all the time that people listen to our podcasts when they’re driving their kids to school and they listen together. I think that’s wonderful. I can imagine someone listening to this now and nudging their daughter or son in the car say, “hey, you need to listen to this and make sure you’re asking questions.” I think it’s a really good thing and it’s not necessarily a sport thing, it’s obviously asking questions. You get coach asking questions of your teachers being curious, inquisitive, and that’s really interesting, I think. Coming back to your passion for humans and the way they operate and I guess that’s derived from your parents example, which I think is so nice to hear, but it seems a fascination more than anything from you. I guess that leads me to another quote which is related, but I’m quoting you now from your essay.

I’ve been focusing on psychology as a personal interest, (which we just heard about), studying and teaching myself from the works of famous and historically important psychologists such as Carl Jung, whose main ideas and teachings can be verted to the idea of becoming a true self, the idea that the complete personality of the individual, of the individual, includes feeling, thought and the combination of the conscious and unconscious mind.

Chris
That’s pretty awesome, mate. Again, if I’m imagining an admissions officer at a university reading that, I think they’re pretty impressed. I think there’s no surprise as to why you were accepted into that particular university. Obviously we know you’ve got that passion for psychology, but for people, but psychology specifically, and why people think the way they do.That’s something you want the US path, by the end of your four years you want to be well on that path to a career in psychology perhaps?

Kuol
Yeah, 100 percent. Definitely. I do have a passion for people and to listen to people, because the biggest issue nowadays when it comes to health is mental health. It’s very stigmatized, especially in Western culture. I think that people should speak out more when they’re struggling and ask for help. It’s very important to always check up on your mates and to see if they’re all right, because you never know what’s going on in someone’s life. That’s why I meet someone, I always make sure that you have a smile and make sure you talk to them, have a joke with them, because you never know what’s going on. I think it’s important to just try to be positive, because you never know if it has an effect on someone. Just saying “good day” to someone and saying “how you doing” it could brighten up someone’s day and there could be even bad thoughts throughout that day and that could change them. I always think listening to people when they talk just even listening, and not obviously go straight away giving someone advice all you need to do is just listen and give them an ear, because people just need to get things out, and that could solve so many problems. I think that’s something that’s really beneficial to just listen. I think psychology in that field is even psychiatry is important, you don’t always get to give someone advice. Just listening is something that could go a long way.

Chris
That’s amazing, mate. It’s really, really insightful for a young man, I think, to have that perspective already and you are still so young. But yeah, I think it’s not really hard to say hello. Just being friendly and kind is one of those things that doesn’t take more than five seconds, but, as you say, that can make all the difference. So that’s really, really nice to hear. That’s a philosophy I have as well, and I think it’s not too hard, it’s a good thing.So look, it’s interesting. My next quote that I was going to share talks about communication and leadership, and, as we’re seeing right now, you’re a great communicator, quite clearly got leadership skills that I think are going to be set you up very well in the US and beyond. But I’ll just quote this and I’ll get you to talk about. We’re bringing the family topic back in a little bit here, so one of the topics, one of the quotes here is:

“Communication and leadership are essential to me as the eldest of eight children, as is critical thinking. When leading my younger brothers, I don’t just lead by example.I do things that they can look at and be inspired by, and whether that’s looking after them or working hard on a passion and chasing dreams to travel to the US to play and study”

Chris
Just like you are now.” So, Kuol, it’s very clear mate, you’re a devoted big brother. I think we can get that sense already.But what are you hoping? What are you hoping when they see you on a Zoom call? When they look up your website at the university? They see you doing good things and they have their chats with you over the next few years. You know, meanwhile they’re developing through their high school years and here, what are you hoping this pathway does for your younger brothers, or them seeing you do this pathway?

Kuol
That’s a really good question, Chris. I think that, especially from where I come from, I have so many opportunities and chances to kind of say, oh, woo me, I’m a victim, this and that. But I try and instill in my brothers to not have a victim mentality and to always aspire to be something great in whatever they want to do, because my father supported me in what I wanted to do. So I want to show my brothers that it doesn’t matter what you want to do. You can chase your dream as long as you stay true to what you’ve been told. You know what you’ve been raised as to be, to be respectful, to be, because I’m a product of my father and I want my siblings to be a product of me because what I do they will follow. You know, children are like sponges, they absorb what they around. So there’s no, there’s no reason for me to go in the wrong direction and be negative, because then they’re going to see and say, oh, it’s OK for Kuol, because it’s OK for us to do this, because Kuol has done it. So when they see, they see me doing something decent in my life and that gives them the inspiration to say I can do this as well. I can go achieve this, I can go get that job, I could go chase this, because that’s that’s all. That’s all children needed in there is just to have a good role model and then after that they can make the decision if they want to go that extra mile. Just a good foundation can can do so much in a child’s life. So I wanted to give my brothers the best opportunity they can, just by setting example, because talking is easy. You could talk a whole day to these kids. So you got to do this, you got to do that. But if I don’t show them that it can be done and they’re not going to really go out and try to do it themselves. So when I, before I leave, I’m going to sit them down and tell them you know I’m going and you’re going to be taking my place and you’re going to be, you know, the guy next guy up to try and do their best, and it’s all right if you don’t, but you have to try, like I did.

Chris
Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, yeah, some cool things there like summarized: show, don’t tell, right. Listen more, talk less. Try your best at all times, ask questions. I mean there’s some pretty cool stuff coming out of what you’re saying here. You’re a very, very wise young man for such a young fellow. So, look, I feel like, yeah, we’re hearing it now, but every time I talk to you, our conversation is like this we talk about these types of things and it’s just so good to have the opportunity to share these. I call them Kuolisms. I’m just a little bit of a sharing with people because it’s really I feel. I feel this is a great privilege to have you on mate to share this stuff. But something struck me at the end of your essay. You said you’ve mentioned this as well.

“I come from humble beginnings and being taught by my parents the importance of hard work and family have brought me to this point.”

So we’ve talked quite a bit about your family. But the concept of hard work I think is interesting and what I think is hard work. The person next to me may not think it’s hard work, or we’ve all got our own barometer, I guess, of what hard work is, and I guess I’d just love to see what your barometer of hard work is, and what does hard work look like for you? And if we throw that in there, hard work generally involves doing something, not necessarily you want to do, so you may not want to do hard work. I think that’s a good way of describing hard work, because if you didn’t, if you did want to do it, it wouldn’t be hard. So I think I’d love to hear your thoughts on hard work. You know what does that mean, and I guess we can throw resilience into there as well, because it’s such a common topic we need to bring up in this path. But talk to me about hard work and resilience, mate.

Kuol
Yeah, that’s a really good question as well. I like that transition. You know it means different things to different people, but to me, hard work is when you look at your end goal, what you want to do, what do you want to achieve and what are you willing to do to get there. What are you willing to kind of sacrifice, like, are you willing to to put in the necessary hours to get to your goal? Like hard work can look at like different things to different people. To me personally, hard work was doing the things you don’t want to do, like doing the things that are usually uncomfortable, like building discipline. That was a really hard thing for me at the beginning, when I really wanted to take basketball seriously, when I was coming up in before around under 18s and under 16s, I was really battling myself to see what was working hard, because I used to have an issue of comparing myself to other people, which is something that’s really negative when you’re trying to find yourself in sport. Sports and life and hard work is basically the foundation. Building discipline is what led to hard work and doing the things you don’t want to do, like setting up a schedule which I really recommend for younger guys coming up, and girls coming up. You want to structure your schedule and your life to get to a point that you’re happy with, like organizing doing things you don’t want to do, like getting runs in, going to the gym, getting extra shots up, not going to that party if you know that you’re not going to be working out the following day, just small things that build up. You have to start small, because I made the mistake of trying to start too big, like trying to cut out everything that I enjoyed because I thought that would be putting in hard work. But that’s not a really sustainable way to live. You need to enjoy life but find balance between enjoying yourself, enjoying your present and sacrificing your future. I know a lot of young guys that I came up with.They went in different directions because they didn’t want to continue the pathway and to me and to them, hard work is different. But to me I was just about, like I said, doing the things you don’t want to do. If you don’t want to do it, then you most likely should be doing it, like putting in extra work. In whatever field you’re in, staying consistent is very, very important. I couldn’t stress this enough, and especially to my siblings, because I consistently tried to implement that into them. No matter what you do, I keep saying just keep turning up, just keep showing up to the gym, just keep showing up and the work will be done. The first thing that people forget about is just showing up. Just show up. Once you show up, you will build something, you will build routine, you will build rhythm and it will become part of your life, no matter what. It is just going out for a walk and then, starting with the light jog and then you’re working to long distance. Don’t start too big. Start small, build, build up and over time days, weeks, months, years you’ll build consistency. That’s what I wish someone told me when I was coming up, instead of making the mistake and trying to go too big and trying to go on these long runs or trying to play for hours and getting tired and risking injuries. Just start small and your hard work will build. Hard work is just about working long hours.It’s about consistency, and you start small.

Chris
Yeah, that’s awesome. Consistency over intensity, I think, is the saying. It’s a very common saying at the moment and that resonates, I’m sure, with a lot of people. That does with me as well. I think one of my favorite sayings is the harder you work, the luckier you get as well. I think that’s an interesting one. I think, just listening to you, it’s sort of fitting Kuol that you’re going to a junior college, right, where you’ve got this opportunity to show up, build. It’s not the finished product. You’re going to move from there to another college. You show up, build, consistently, show up and obviously, from a basketball point of view, you’ve got to improve. From an academic point of view, you’ve got to improve, your building your basketball profile over those two years, You’re building your academic profile which is going to allow you to go to the best possible four-year college you can. That’s what excites me when we’re going to follow your progress over the next few years, mate, I think it’s not a matter of if it’s where, and it’s really, really exciting. I think it also when I was talking to you on the phone earlier this week, one of the things you said is one of your big focuses is staying the course, right. Again, that’s such an obvious statement and you’ve course, you’ve got to stay the course, but I think it’s easy to go off course when things aren’t going your way. So tell us what you mean by staying the course, mate. Yeah.

Kuol
Yeah, but what I mean by staying the course? It sounds very simple and not interesting, but staying the course really just means knowing why you’re doing the things you’re doing. Remember what you’re there for. I know I haven’t gone to the US yet, but I know the reason I’m going there. I know why I’m going there and how I’m going to continue to stay there, because I know myself and I know the foundation where I come from. So I can say that I have a solid foundation. But staying the course means you have to expect barriers, you have to expect hurdles. Not everything’s going to be sweet and dandy. There’s going to be challenges and you have to prepare yourself for those, not just physically but mentally as well, because I’ve spoken to many, many, many college players that have gone from Juco to Division I guys, and they all say the same thing: remember the reason that you do it, because you’re going to miss your family. There’s going to be times where you are sore and you don’t want to go to training. There’s going to be times that you have to study and get to your classes. So you have to expect these things and to know your reason to keep going, because if you know your reason, then your mind is solid and you can keep going forward. So just knowing what you’re doing and why, because you can go a long way. So just stay your course. Me personally, I’ve written down on some notes. You know my reasons for going Like I’ll share with you guys. Number one will be family. We’ll be faith, because faith is very important to me. And then, number three, just achieving my own personal goals, because I’m very ambitious and going to a different country was something that, to me, was just the beginning. I feel like there’s much more greater things to be achieved. The work has just begun. I cannot get to the US and think, yep, I’ve made it, I’m here now, yep, everything’s all good. No, I’m an international student. The first international student that coach Dumont has was brought in. So the expectations are high and I have to continue to show why I was accepted and chosen to go play for him. So staying the course to me is just about knowing why you’re going to where you are and what you’re doing. 

Chris
Yeah, that’s really good, mate, and as you know, as you’ve experienced through this pathway, it’s not easy. It’s not particularly being a male basketballer, it’s a difficult market, if we call it that to get into and then to get your opportunities, and a lot of people go through this quite detailed process and they get the prize, which is wow, I’ve got my offer and I’ve accepted and I’m going to college, but you haven’t done anything yet in terms of it’s all ahead, which is daunting and really exciting at the same point. So I like that point you made about it’s just the start.It really is. You’ve got your opportunity, which is that’s taken a lot of hard work to get there, definitely, and you should celebrate that. But now, now is the fun stuff and now is the real hard work, and this is where all the things you’ve talked about here get put to the test right, staying away from home and staying the course, and that’s what I think you’re in such a well-placed position to do, that, mate. So look, mate, I think it’s just really interesting listening to you. I feel like we travel around wide parts of Australia doing presentations and we’re trying to inspire the next young generation. I feel like, mate, one day, when we get you back, potentially in Australia, you need to join us on that speaking tour, mate. I think there’s a job for you there, if not with us, someone right. I think you’ve got a natural gift there to communicate really, really important, powerful ideas, for kids mainly, and I think that’s highly valuable. So look, mate, I want to finish off by saying, or reminding you, I guess, and listeners, that when you first signed with us, as I do with all male basketballers, we forewarn how difficult it can be with recruiting you said to me, “Chris, all I need is one offer, right, and I never forget that, because that’s an unusual thing for a young kid to say, because usually, naturally, I want 30 offers and 40 offers, but you said, “all I need is one offer, one opportunity.” And, Kuol, I think, through persistence and patience and a phenomenal attitude, you’ve got your opportunity and now I guess we can sit back and watch with great interest to see you progress and grow along this path in the US. So, mate, we’d love to get back in a year from now. Let’s get you back on In The Huddle and I think, hopefully, our listeners are pretty eager to hear a progress report as well, but you’d be happy to join us then, mate, in about a year.

Kuol
Oh 100%, Definitely.

Chris
Awesome, mate. Well, I’m going to wrap it up there and wish you all the best while you go get them, mate, and we know you’re going to be a pretty inspirational addition to the team over there, so go get them.

Kuol
Thank you Chris. I just want to say one last thing. Thank you again for Study and Play USA, for the opportunity. Now it’s time to put in the work and really go get it. 

Chris
You bet, Good luck, mate.